An interesting trend I've notice with Gen Z males and how this may shape society

[sangheilios]

I do agree with everyone who disagrees with the notion that education is no longer important. At age 30 with no higher education and only a high school diploma, the lack of a higher education of any kind has only hurt me in the long run. I’m low income and have no career because of it. I also feel like being told by people to just get an entry level job and climb the ladder is a huge cope a lot of times. There are several times when people have attempted to do that, only to be passed up for the promotion they wanted by someone with completed higher education getting promoted or hired from the outside instead.

That's not the point of what was being discussed. The point is that unless you have the natural talent/aptitude to do well in more technical STEM related fields, college is very often a waste of time. Here's a hint, the overwhelming majority of people do NOT have the natural talent to where they will be able to get degrees in fields like engineering, mathematics, physics, computer science, etc. For most people, they would be honestly spinning their wheels trying to pursue degrees like this and they'd be better off pursuing something else.

The only other exceptions to STEM that are college related would be things like nursing or any of the "trade" type medical professions that many community colleges have programs for.

Business degrees are legitimate but highly oversaturated and more or less the basic credentials for an entry level office type position. During the 2008 recession it was an employer's market, meaning it was harder for otherwise qualified people to find employment in their fields. Many started going for their MBAs to stand out from the competition, naturally schools took advantage of this and profited while the strength of the MBA decreased lol.

You should notice a trend by now with what I'm discussing.

That's your own fault for basically feeling like you fell behind in life. While you were stuck working dead end jobs and barely getting by you could have spent time learning about finance, investments, wealth building, etc. You could have gotten into a specific trade, tons of plumbing companies will literally hire you as an apprentice and give you benefits, etc. You could have gone into the military and been set for life. You could have moved to Texas or Alaska and applied for oil jobs and worked your ass off.

 

[SW15]

Business degrees are legitimate but highly oversaturated and more or less the basic credentials for an entry level office type position. During the 2008 recession it was an employer's market, meaning it was harder for otherwise qualified people to find employment in their fields. Many started going for their MBAs to stand out from the competition, naturally schools took advantage of this and profited while the strength of the MBA decreased lol.

I agree with your analysis about business degrees.

A bachelor's level degree in Business doesn't mean too much, especially if it from a basic public university.

MBAs (Master of Business Administration) are holding less and less value. Prior to the 1990s, when Boomers and early Gen X'ers were getting MBAs, it was common to go straight from a bachelor's program to an MBA program. During the 1990s, most MBA programs started requiring work experience in between completing a bachelor's degree and starting an MBA program. I think this happened in response to employer demands and by the 2000s, employers were expecting new MBA grads to have some white collar type work experience.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/articles/how-much-work-experience-do-i-need-for-mba-programs

MBAs don't tend to boost careers that much unless they are from top tier programs.

 

[sangheilios]

I agree with your analysis about business degrees.

A bachelor's level degree in Business doesn't mean too much, especially if it from a basic public university.

MBAs (Master of Business Administration) are holding less and less value. Prior to the 1990s, when Boomers and early Gen X'ers were getting MBAs, it was common to go straight from a bachelor's program to an MBA program. During the 1990s, most MBA programs started requiring work experience in between completing a bachelor's degree and starting an MBA program. I think this happened in response to employer demands and by the 2000s, employers were expecting new MBA grads to have some white collar type work experience.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/articles/how-much-work-experience-do-i-need-for-mba-programs

MBAs don't tend to boost careers that much unless they are from top tier programs.

I remember a little over a decade ago having this conversation with someone who had a relative going for an MBA and how they'd be making 150k+ after graduation like it was this sure thing. People wildly overestimate how much they can potentially earn with various degrees and often end up getting a serious reality check when they enter the workforce. As has been repeated to Daniel Craig numerous times on here, earning 6 figures in CA or NYC within a few years of graduation is not the same and the only exception to this.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Ahh you sound bitter Pooky.

Don’t hate the player hate the game.

No need to be petulant because I made better educational and career choices than you and out earn you by an order of magnitude or more, and don’t live in a desert shyte hole with high COL and crap salaries. I love my lifestyle, my career and my environment, do you?

Choose better Sang.

As has been repeated to Daniel Craig numerous times on here, earning 6 figures in CA or NYC within a few years of graduation is not the same and the only exception to this.

 

[SW15]

I remember a little over a decade ago having this conversation with someone who had a relative going for an MBA and how they'd be making 150k+ after graduation like it was this sure thing. People wildly overestimate how much they can potentially earn with various degrees and often end up getting a serious reality check when they enter the workforce. As has been repeated to Daniel Craig numerous times on here, earning 6 figures in CA or NYC within a few years of graduation is not the same and the only exception to this.

I agree with you that too many people overestimate how much an advanced degree will impact their earnings and their overall career.

There are some MBAs who are able to get high paying finance and consulting jobs with top tier firms right out of school. This usually happens to those who attend only a small percentage of MBA programs. This happens with new graduates of the most elite programs.

MBA graduates from more mid-tier programs are usually fighting it out to get offers from lower tier companies. Most MBAs are not at elite programs but rather at these mid-tier programs. At a mid-tier program, results vary. On campus recruiting isn't as good as on campus recruiting at the elites. It often comes down to the personal network of the mid-tier MBA graduate and the economic conditions at the time of MBA graduation.

Getting a bachelor's degree in business is better than some liberal arts/social science bachelor's degree. New 22-23 year old graduates with a bachelor's in business aren't usually doing that well. This also depends upon on campus recruiting, economic conditions in one's senior year, personal networks, and a few other factors.

 

[sangheilios]

I agree with you that too many people overestimate how much an advanced degree will impact their earnings and their overall career.

There are some MBAs who are able to get high paying finance and consulting jobs with top tier firms right out of school. This usually happens to those who attend only a small percentage of MBA programs. This happens with new graduates of the most elite programs.

MBA graduates from more mid-tier programs are usually fighting it out to get offers from lower tier companies. Most MBAs are not at elite programs but rather at these mid-tier programs. At a mid-tier program, results vary. On campus recruiting isn't as good as on campus recruiting at the elites. It often comes down to the personal network of the mid-tier MBA graduate and the economic conditions at the time of MBA graduation.

Getting a bachelor's degree in business is better than some liberal arts/social science bachelor's degree. New 22-23 year old graduates with a bachelor's in business aren't usually doing that well. This also depends upon on campus recruiting, economic conditions in one's senior year, personal networks, and a few other factors.

I think the only time an advanced degree is more of a sure thing is with healthcare and science related fields.

For instance, in healthcare this would be things like becoming a nurse practitioner or physician assistant, legitimate jobs with quite specific earnings. This also could include becoming a dentist or medical doctor, though this typically requires a lot of student loan debt AND a lot of schooling. The average dental school graduate has something close to 1 million dollars in student loan debt after completing school, which is huge. Medical doctors go to med school but then have to spend large amounts of time in their residencies, so it's close to a decade before they truly enter their fields, possibly more if they are in very technical medical specialties.

The one advanced healthcare degree that I honestly think is not worth it is becoming a physical therapist. The schooling is well into the 6 figures for a 3 year program but the potential earnings are around 100k, even less in some areas of the country and with little room for advancement. You could also lump occupational therapy in with this. With this much further education and with that much of a cost for schooling, I'd definitely think carefully on a career field like this.

This is getting into more nitty gritty details, but some of the sciences would naturally require advanced degrees. If you had a degree in physics but wanted to work for NASA or something they'd require an advanced degree. They are actually on the 2nd Mars simulation study right now, where they have volunteers living in this controlled environment for something like 6 months. Anyway, they required the volunteers to have advanced degrees in relevant fields, like astronomy, physics, engineering, etc.

As for the business degrees, I definitely agree that it is way better than some basic liberal arts type degree, such as political science or geography. I would consider this a basic credential for an entry level corporate type job. You'd probably be better off pursuing a more specialized field, such as economics or accounting or something along those lines.

 

[SW15]

The one advanced healthcare degree that I honestly think is not worth it is becoming a physical therapist. The schooling is well into the 6 figures for a 3 year program but the potential earnings are around 100k, even less in some areas of the country and with little room for advancement. You could also lump occupational therapy in with this. With this much further education and with that much of a cost for schooling, I'd definitely think carefully on a career field like this.

Good point. I think physical therapy is a generally worthless occupation. Most of the success/failure of someone's recovery depends on their medical doctor/surgeon. In general, physical therapy is far too overprescribed by orthopedic doctors, which is why too many people have subpar PT experiences.

Around 70% of physical therapists are women. Since these are women with advanced degrees, they are less feminine and less dateable women in general.

As for the business degrees, I definitely agree that it is way better than some basic liberal arts type degree, such as political science or geography. I would consider this a basic credential for an entry level corporate type job. You'd probably be better off pursuing a more specialized field, such as economics or accounting or something along those lines.

This is generally accurate information.

 

[Solomon]

Whatever helps ya sleep man. Seriously, men have been sitting around waiting for the financial collapse since the 60’s telling themselves that they’ve got it all figured out. They just die bitter, wretched, and poonless (unless they import a 4 from some third world country). Saxon and Tappan really looked like well adjusted individuals, didn’t they?

Like I said in another thread if this doesn't happen by April of 2025 feel free to ban me, I'm not here to fear monger but things are going left really fast, not talking out of my ass and I cite my sources

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Why in God's name would we want to ban you?

Like I said in another thread if this doesn't happen by April of 2025 feel free to ban me, I'm not here to fear monger but things are going left really fast, not talking out of my ass and I cite my sources

 

[ABC123]

On the college part, I didn’t go to college and was able to find a decent job at 23.

To me the knowledge is superior than a paper degree. Although I would saying having a college degree does put you at an advantage when you’re competing for a job against a person like me who doesn’t have a degree. A lot of companies automatically throw your resume to the trash just for the sole reason of having no degree, even if you have the technical knowledge.

 

[needimprovement250]

many community colleges have programs

I went to community college and I hated it with a passion, but looking back at it now, I probably went about it the wrong way. I was under the impression that you only go to get your associates degree and transfer, then I learned that I would have to take a bunch of prerequisite classes before I could even take my transfer classes and that it would likely take close to 4 years to get a 2 year degree when it’s all said and done, so that’s when I got frustrated and dropped out, then started working the dead end jobs.

That's your own fault for basically feeling like you fell behind in life. While you were stuck working dead end jobs and barely getting by you could have spent time learning about finance, investments, wealth building, etc. You could have gotten into a specific trade, tons of plumbing companies will literally hire you as an apprentice and give you benefits, etc. You could have gone into the military and been set for life. You could have moved to Texas or Alaska and applied for oil jobs and worked your ass off.

I do really regret not going directly into a trade school after graduating high school. I feel like going to community college was a terrible mistake and I also had other people in my life egging me on to believe that community college was a good choice.

Funny that you mention plumbing because after I quit one of my previous dead end jobs, my family was encouraging me to give education another try to break out of this dead end job cycle, which I did to get involved in something agricultural and I’ve had an interest in that field ever since I was young and back then my family roasted me for even considering that and pushed me to pursue other fields that never worked out and just kept me in this dead end job cycle at the end of the day. So one day after I decided to forgo work for education again, they said that I don’t need school and just become a plumber instead. I flew off the handle in a fit of rage and they almost called the cops on me. I still live at home with my parents too, so now there’s added tension from this incident and I’m still not on speaking terms with my sister to this day because of that incident.

I didn’t go into the military because I would have only done the Navy and I didn’t want to be stationed on a submarine, and I also didn’t want to give up smoking weed to enlist (ridiculous reason I know) that second reason is also why I never got into the oil fields.

Honestly, even if this new attempt at education works out, I still have my doubts since the fact that I’ve had no serious job into my 30’s is gonna look bad regardless of the educational certification and training. I feel that some mistakes just cause irreversible harm to your life and I have been struggling with suic*dal thoughts because I don’t have much hope that things will get better.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

When the young men of a society conclude that the game is rigged against them, society collapses. Poon is the great opiate that keeps young men in the game.

The game is rigged against people who are lazy and don't want to put in any work, wanting things handed to them in day 1 that have taken people 10 years of busting their ass and blood, sweat and tears to get.

When you think you should be handed everything and if you aren't the game is rigged, it's a problem with the person in the mirror. Work ethic doesn't exist by and in large with Gen Z which is why I will have a job until I am 95 if I live that long and want to work.

I mean just look at how popular Ozempic is for weight loss...don't want to put in the work? Just take an injection because you want something free without having to put the work in. Doesn't matter if it makes you look like garbage, because hey, at least you didn't have to be healthy and exercise and eat right, which funnily enough would have you lose the weight twice as fast and be far more effective.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

.
Honestly, even if this new attempt at education works out, I still have my doubts since the fact that I’ve had no serious job into my 30’s is gonna look bad regardless of the educational certification and training. I feel that some mistakes just cause irreversible harm to your life and I have been struggling with suic*dal thoughts because I don’t have much hope that things will get better.

Most degree programs have job placement programs for graduates. As a freshly minted whatever you do, employers see you in that light - that you’ve just graduated and are ready for an entry level position. This is case for most AS degrees like imaging, rn, dental assistant, respiratory, also the case for people getting degrees in other fields at community colleges. Before you pick a field of study look at the placement rates - a counselor can help.

Is there any field of study that interests you? Like at all? That’s where you should start.

Nothing worth doing in life is easy.

 

[needimprovement250]

Most degree programs have job placement programs for graduates. As a freshly minted whatever you do, employers see you in that light - that you’ve just graduated and are ready for an entry level position. This is case for most AS degrees like imaging, rn, dental assistant, respiratory, also the case for people getting degrees in other fields at community colleges. Before you pick a field of study look at the placement rates - a counselor can help.

Is there any field of study that interests you? Like at all? That’s where you should start.

Nothing worth doing in life is easy.

Yeah like I said, agriculture and agribusiness (organic agriculture to be exact) I’ve had an interest in it ever since I was a kid and my family roasted me for it, they tried to gaslight me into becoming a movie special effects designer in Hollywood and even made me go tour colleges in LA for it. Even the tour guides said your chances of amounting to anything in the digital special effects business is slim to none. There is a community college in my area that has certifications for horticulture, that’s what I’m planning on doing. Tragic irony that community college is where this negative trajectory of my life started and now I’m going back.